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-- The GAROU thread! All Garou fans come in here! And... MvsC2 of course (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=14582)

Posted by Nate X Grey on April 24th, 2001 03:35 PM:

Ok... since there are no decent Garou: Mark of the Wolves pages or faqs around and I'm really starting to like that game, let's make this an unofficial thread for discussing Garou tactics and strats!

And then... anyone who has any questions about MvsC2 and wanna ask me, I'll try my best to help. Ok. So this thread now has something to do with Capcom games. So please don't move it to "General Discussion"! I'd really hate looking for my thread in that place! It has tons of creepy things.
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Posted by Buktooth88 on April 24th, 2001 04:45 PM:

here's a quick tip:

using Dong Hwan, jump and IMMEDIATELY press light kick, then cancel it into his air super. What you get is an instant, untelegraphed overhead which leads to a free super! You can then follow the super with a juggle.

Oh, just so you know, definitely is spelled with an "I".

Posted by Nate X Grey on April 24th, 2001 04:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buktooth88
here's a quick tip:

Hahaha... Yeah I know. Its a pun.

Anyway, I normally use Terry, Jae Hoon or B.Jenet. I find Terry's far standing d really sweet because of the ability to cancel it if its blocked. I like ending blocked c.lks with a s.hk XX fierce powercharge to keep the pressure on. It works damn well cause there's no lag after the powercharge. Human players won't counter it if you do this sparingly. Anyway, can anyone help me with Terry's feint combo? I never tried it but it sounds hard.
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Posted by Buktooth88 on April 24th, 2001 05:19 PM:

oh. Heh, I thought you were doin that Vietnamese thing of spelling things LIkE ThIs.

As for your Terry q, I dunno, I only use Dong Hwan, Jae Hoon, and the wrestler guy.

Posted by Defective on April 24th, 2001 06:07 PM:
The GAROU thread! All Garou fans come in here! And... MvsC2 of course

Any known glitches for MoTW? Who are the top tier characters?

Posted by Nate X Grey on April 26th, 2001 05:13 PM:

WTF!? NO ONE LIKES GAROU HERE!? WTF MAN! Its a GREAT game!

I dunno the top tiers. The game isn't play extensively here so I can't really comment. Maybe if you all give me some ideas of how the game is played in your area, we could work something out. Terry is definitely placed rather highly since he has a dash that can be cancelled out of at anytime. Moves with almost no lag. And that overpowered buster wolf which pummels the crap outta you. I find his TOP attack rather useless though. I don't even do his burning knuckle outside a combo. Crackshoot, powerdunk and powercharge are his best moves IMHO. Especially the powercharge. For B.Jenet... I just can't get her to hang with that Butt guy. I guess Butt is pretty high up too. His dp has more priority than alot of moves and he has that irritatingly high prioritized jumping kick. His stalled punch is evil and projectiles fast and damaging. His dp is easily braked to leave him safe. I've never tried freeman but he seems pretty good. Tizoc dones tons of damage... but his spd just isn't as good as Gief's(Who's is!?) and seems to always whiff outside of a just defend XX grab. I have no idea how he ranks. Kevin Rian supposedly has 100% combo but I've never ever seen it. Most of the gameplay here is dominated by Terry, Rock, Butt, Kim's sons and Freeman. Terry plain rocks.
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Posted by Drahktar on April 26th, 2001 05:45 PM:

I must say I am VERY happy this tread exists. Garou fans seem to be far and few between, at least where I live, so I'm happy to see others playing it. It's easily my favorite fighter.

My main man is Gato. I also like to use Dong Hwan, Freeman and Terry. I LOVE Gato's explosion jump, it's just so versitile.
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Posted by Defective on April 26th, 2001 06:11 PM:
Defective

I don't play the game much and it's not at an arcade within a 100 miles of me. I have it for the Neo Geo but I haven't played it in months.

The only arcade playing session I had on it was a few matches at SHGL (with the few people who play Neo Geo there) and here's what I learned:

1.Don Kim is overpowered according to one guy.
2.Gato's little sis has some seriously overprioritised ground pokes.

We weren't doing any complicated stuff like Just Defending everything or anything of that nature we were just playing old school 2d style.

I just posted to see if I could learn something about the game and give me some incentive to wipe the dust off it.

*On a side note*Anybody hard to play one on one fighters these days? I really couldn't get into Garou because KOF spoiled me on the team play and now after MvC2 I fear that I may never be able to go back.

Posted by Bastion on April 26th, 2001 06:28 PM:

Im a extreme newbie at Garou. I've got like a total of one hour playing that game. But I'm starting to pick it up. I played as Rock, and I'd like to continue playing as him since he is the best SNK character ever . Um one que3stion I had was, (I forget the name of that game element...was it T.O.C) anyway, I wanted to know what portion of the lifebar best suits Rock having that T.O.C at? I used it in the first part of the life bar when I played.
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Posted by Miang on April 26th, 2001 06:34 PM:

Well, if you're using a rushing strategy it does make sense to have it at the front of your life bar sometimes. Myself, I generally prefer either mid or near the end of it, gives one some time to feel out the opponenet and have a charged potential ready to put behind it.

Posted by Spider-Dan on April 26th, 2001 06:36 PM:

I really like MOTW, it was very refreshing... definitely my favorite SNK game since KOF '95.

It's hard for me to develop tiers, but I'd think that Kevin, Rock, and Tizoc would all be pretty high. All the characters seem pretty good though.
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Posted by Drahktar on April 26th, 2001 07:05 PM:

I usually put my T.O.P. area at the bottom third of the life bar (default). The middle third is also worth while. If you're going to put your meter at the top, there are two things to consider. First of all, since you start in the T.O.P. zone, shinking it to do more damage is VERY usefull. This is the only area you should consider shrinking it, because that small area can be skipped entirely if some descent damage is done to you, robbing you of it's benefit altogether. You dig? Also, something that can be easily overlooked is that when you enter T.O.P. mode, the game freezes for a second (just like when a super goes off) that often makes your opponent screw up whatever combo he's doing to you at the moment.

Also, an interesting thing I've noticed is that Hotaru is really just a bruiser. Not too quick and really damaging. Not something you'd expect from a little kid sister type.
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Posted by Masahiko on April 26th, 2001 07:53 PM:
about Garou...

This is a really neat thread and I'm glad I happened across it. I've been hearing a lot about Garou recently which suprised me at first cause I thought it was an older game, which I guess is not the case (right?).
Anyway, I've never played it and doubt i'll be able to anytime soon but can you guys tell me a little about it. I know it's related to Fatal Fury somehow of course and that Terry looks pretty badass in his new jacket but other than that... When did it come out, is it just available in the arcade, is it really a great game? perhaps a little about the game system or whatever, anything you want. thanks guys!

out.
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Posted by Ryu1999 on April 26th, 2001 08:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buktooth88
here's a quick tip:

using Dong Hwan, jump and IMMEDIATELY press light kick, then cancel it into his air super. What you get is an instant, untelegraphed overhead which leads to a free super! You can then follow the super with a juggle.

Oh, just so you know, definitely is spelled with an "I".

DAT's RIGHT....DONG HWAN OWNS YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dong hwan was my 2nd character i ever picked in Garou. (after terry) i liked kim kaphwan in the other SNK games, but dong hwan combined the cockiness with the skilllzzz...its ironic i don't use ken though...cause he is one cocky SOB if he think's he can beat ryu. only problem with dong hwan is that he has no reliable special moves outside of the dp kick, and the "kim" slash kick (the one from the air). his kogetusuzan is so slow (though it is an overhead) and at lower levels of competiion, you can mix it up with his electric stomp, but i just don't see how to play dong hwan besides building meter and unleashing his awesome supers (especially his P. Power "phoenix rush" that shit is like AHVB in physical not beam form)
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Posted by Drahktar on April 26th, 2001 08:22 PM:

You can always play is emulated. It's not terribly hard to find and the Neo-Geo emulators rock all. All of my experience playing this game was done on emulation, for there is not an arcade within a hundred miles with this game. Sure emulation is free, but I'd take the arcade atmosphere and competition to emulation anyday. As for the game itself, it rocks. Like I said earlier, if I had to pick my favorite fighter, this would be it.

Here's a little on the gameplay:

T.O.P. mode - You choose a section of your health bar. When in that section you enter T.O.P. mode. You deal 25-75% more damage depending on how large you make the zone (smaller = more damage). You slowly regain life in this mode, as well as have an additional special move available. There aren't too many T.O.P. attacks (the move available in the T.O.P. zone) that I find useful, but some are good (Dong Hwan's).

Just Defense: When blocking, if you block just before an attack hits (like SF3 parrying, but you press back not forward, so screwing up means you just block, unless you time it too late of course) you gain life equal to the tick damage of that move. Unlike many fighters, a lot of moves deal more than one pixel of damage per hit. You can also guard cancel out of just defense with any special attack if you do it immedietly afterwards, but since just defense doesn't stun your opponent or anything you can still get hit out of that special if their move does multiple hits. Sometimes they can recover and block your guard cancel attack, so it's not a free counter-attack like SF3.

I really like the character design in this game too. Different characters actually play SIGNIFICANTLY different from the other characters. They often have things that not everyone can do. Some can dash, some run, some can super-jump or jump twice. Things like that. Hope that helps.
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Posted by Ryu1999 on April 26th, 2001 11:10 PM:

the only similar styles of course terry/rock and dong hwan/jae hoon. butyou CANNOT play dong hwan like jae hoon. rock sorta plays like old-school terry like during the FFS days with his lightning tackle and terry plays sorta like CVS terry, depending on his rising tackle. i didn't know you can get life back during T.O.P!!

oh another important thing. the "Brake" move (that's right brake, not break). by pressing AB during a move, you can cancel itmid-animation and go into another move. for example: were i to hit you with dong hwan's "dragon punch" kick. i could brake it after the first hit, and juggle you further. i can even tag on his air super if i wished. THat little ninja boy's "andy somersault" is probably the best brake move in the game IMO.
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Posted by Drahktar on April 26th, 2001 11:28 PM:

Ah yes, forgot about those. I don't use them, so it's easy to forget. The main three people I like all have terrible brake moves. Terry, Dong Hwan and Gato. I'll definitely agree with you about Hokutomaru's brake move, that one is awesome.
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Posted by Arma^ on April 27th, 2001 12:10 AM:

I find Rock's Brake handy - trapped in corner wait for the opponent to make a mistake.. land the 360°+C then instantly break.

This leaves the opponent floating in the corner for you to land whatever you want. I usually go for QCB+A, QCFx2+D, then Rising Tackle.

You can do 360°+C, rising tackle, QCF x2+D, rising tackle also.

Works quite well.

But, like Drahktar, I mainly use Gato - check Drahktar's Gamefaqs.com Gato FAQ ^_^ !

Cheers.

Arma^
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Posted by Drahktar on April 27th, 2001 03:52 AM:

Cool! I'm glad someone found that useful. You just reminded me that I even made that Gato FAQ. LOL I should get back on that. I haven't played Garou in months, since I still only know one person who plays it But now that I'm talking about it again, I'm really in the mood for it. I think I start up that FAQ again, there's a lot I can do with it yet.
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Posted by AZER on April 27th, 2001 04:16 AM:

I have a question.

When is this game going to be release for DC? Is it going to come out only in Japan or both Japan and USA?

I'm really interested in this game and can't wait to buy it for the DC.
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Posted by Ryu1999 on April 27th, 2001 04:23 AM:

it looks like a neogeo only game for now....unfortunate since i'm sure it'd be a better port than their kof99 dream match or whatever which was horrible
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Posted by Buktooth88 on April 27th, 2001 04:34 AM:

my friends from Taiwan (where SNK games are HUGE) say Dong Hwan is the best char, followed by Kevin and Tizok. (lots of names are different in the Japanese version, if I accidentally throw out a wrong name here or there)

I've forgotten most of the strats since I haven't played this game in a LONG time, but basic Dong Hwan strategy includes harassing with repeated low jumps with immediate light kicks, which are canceled into a super if you have one. Mix up the low jump kicks with an occasional c.light kick XX dp+k to keep 'em guessing...

With Kevin, I know they abuse the high/low mix up coming out of his crawl a LOT, since the overhead is barely telegraphed it almost becomes a guess which way to block. It's also REALLY hard to interrupt him out of the crawl.

As with most recent SNK games, there is almost never a reason to do a normal jump. Abuse those low jumps!

Posted by Buktooth88 on April 27th, 2001 04:35 AM:

oh, anybody know where I can find a neo geo emulator and games? (hope I don't get in trouble with mods for askin...)

Posted by Drahktar on April 27th, 2001 04:58 AM:

http://www.geoshock.com/ is a good place to start. No roms, but they got links.

About those small jumps. Normal jumps beat out small jumps when you meet in the air. So there is a point to them.

As for Garou for the DC, it is coming. To the US I don't know though... Can't remember where I found this out, but I'm pretty sure it's coming.
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Posted by Infiniti on April 27th, 2001 05:26 AM:

where the hell can I find a picture for this game? people say it looks good I wanna see it.
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Posted by Drahktar on April 27th, 2001 06:29 AM:

Um, I really don't know. If you want you can bug me on ICQ (#50970876) and I can snap some screenshots for ya.
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Posted by Ryu1999 on April 27th, 2001 06:47 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buktooth88
my friends from Taiwan (where SNK games are HUGE) say Dong Hwan is the best char, followed by Kevin and Tizok. (lots of names are different in the Japanese version, if I accidentally throw out a wrong name here or there)

I've forgotten most of the strats since I haven't played this game in a LONG time, but basic Dong Hwan strategy includes harassing with repeated low jumps with immediate light kicks, which are canceled into a super if you have one. Mix up the low jump kicks with an occasional c.light kick XX dp+k to keep 'em guessing...

With Kevin, I know they abuse the high/low mix up coming out of his crawl a LOT, since the overhead is barely telegraphed it almost becomes a guess which way to block. It's also REALLY hard to interrupt him out of the crawl.

As with most recent SNK games, there is almost never a reason to do a normal jump. Abuse those low jumps!

damn i never knew dong hwan was that good!!! for once, a goofy character that's also good gameplay wise! but yeah jump light kick is a good move, but what do they think of d+k. i always found this a good move with kim so...
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Posted by Drahktar on April 27th, 2001 07:03 AM:

I use Dong Hwan's d+k a lot. It rocks. Never used the hop light kick stratagy. I just use his light lighning kick instead, same effect, nasty block damage.
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Posted by Tiger Bones on April 27th, 2001 09:30 AM:

i downloaded the rom for garou but i can't get it to start up in either neorageX or mame.. i need patches for missing roms...does anyone know where i can get them from?

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Posted by BoBO tHE sTrANgE on April 27th, 2001 11:17 AM:

Garou is a great game that doesnt get the press it deserves.top tiers huh hard to say since its just my friend with a neo geo or a couple of us emulating( dong whan that good i would have never figured...what ever the spelling is its late sue me)I mainly use Gato,Terry, and Grant, trying to learn the little ninja boy(i cant recall the name). Gato jump roundhouse is good presure do little hop jump at the enemy with poking with light attacks light palm thrusts n explosion jumps occasionally throwing them while there blocking. I cant wait till it hits the DC!Kevin Brian is just another freaking carry over from ralph whos been plaging me since his damn appearance in KOF.
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Posted by Shin Kyo on April 27th, 2001 12:11 PM:

Finally...some Garou talk!

This is one of my favorite fighter...I have been playing this for a while...especially when I can finally play this game over the net with real people..anyway...my personnal favorite character is Freeman...I just love his QCFx2+K super....this "Raging Demon" like move is so awesome and can easily trick people into getting hit with it...btw, this Garou version of Terry just looks way too cool...much better than the skinnier look of his Kof incarnation!

And I always thought that Hokutomaru was a little cheap with all his projectiles and double-jump ability...but I guess he isn't that good once you can Just-Defend them...

Posted by Arma^ on April 27th, 2001 12:25 PM:

http://www.mameplay.net/ http://www.mame.dk/ http://www.dgroms.com/

And remember, we all own the original rom and boards don't we?

Arma
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Posted by Arma^ on April 27th, 2001 12:31 PM:

Just thought I'd add I've got this nice little converter that sits in my PC's parallel port and coverts from my PC to PSX ports - hence I can use PSX controllers connected to my PC to play emulated stuff.

At the moment I'm using to Namco Arcade Sticks - Really really good when it comes to emulation and fighters.

I'm not sure where you can get these from as I got mine from my local import shop over here in the UK. I think they have something similar on http://www.lik-sang.com/

Cheers

Arma
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Posted by Chougousenki on April 27th, 2001 01:10 PM:
Picture

Well, you could find a whole web page on the game at http://www.neogeo.co.jp/

But it might be difficult for you to find it. 'Cause I know not everyone is as great at reading kanji as I am.

Posted by Nate X Grey on April 27th, 2001 03:54 PM:

Alright... I just got back from another day at the arcades. And its the FIRST time I saw like 6-10 people or so crowding around the Garou machine! The game's getting popular! Yeah! I only played once cause I spent most my day training my Alpha3 but played a really good Jae Hoon player who just defended every piece of shit. Got him down to 1 pixel in the final round(best of 5 rounds) with 3/4 life remaining... and I somehow DIED!? Wtf!?

Anyway, about the T.O.P mode... I usually put mine in the middle. I thought since you deal more damage there, I'll use the first third of my lifebar to build some meters then see if there are opportunities during my T.O.P mode. I don't like putting it at the end because sometimes when I'm dying, I'll choose to save the super or whatever. Just my personal way of playing. By the way, anyone knows the timing for braking Terry's powerdunk? I can't get that shit to work. Does it have to be VERY fast?

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Posted by BoBO tHE sTrANgE on April 27th, 2001 10:45 PM:

With Hokutomaru i use all his 3vil projectiles specially the ground triple as a method of keeping the opponenet away. his ground triple seems hard for most peeps to just deend the whole thing a bounch o times!i use his fake teleport and hid flying kangaroo kick with a little dashing n stuff mixed in. i usaully use the lvl1 projectile super to help with the keep away(and tacking a littledamage), even my friend who uses b. jenet the queen o mobility has trouble keeping close. I usaully use the TOP mode at 1.5 with terry at the first of the bar;grant,gato,and Hokutomaru 1.25 at the begining.
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Posted by Shin Kyo on April 28th, 2001 05:56 AM:

To brake Terry's Power Dunk...you need to input the brake command almost immediately upon impact..which mean Terry should brake the move before he even leaps....after that you can usually do another power dunk...or better yet...a Buster Wolf!

Posted by Drahktar on April 28th, 2001 06:40 AM:

Yeah, as far as I can tell, it's impossible to just defend all three of hokutomaru's stars. You can just defend the first, be the other two are impossible. Makes it one of the best projectiles in the game.
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Posted by Nate X Grey on April 28th, 2001 09:25 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Drahktar
Yeah, as far as I can tell, it's impossible to just defend all three of hokutomaru's stars. You can just defend the first, be the other two are impossible. Makes it one of the best projectiles in the game.

Is this true? I thought just defending the first allows you to automatically just defend the other 2 as well. I just always just defend this projectiles when possible and I'm not sure, but I think I gained life instead of losing it when I just defended the triple stars. Are the 3 stars considered totally different projectiles? Cause I once just defended a Butt super fireball and gained a shitload of health back although I only held back once and the fireball has 5 hits. Can someone please clarify this? Thanx.

And Terry's brake is so fucking hard. Do expert Terry users often use his break? I do pretty well without it so I'm just curious.
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Posted by BoBO tHE sTrANgE on April 28th, 2001 09:37 AM:

Yeah use terry pretty exectively and the break(yeah its takes time to get down)it set them up for combos and juggles.
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Posted by choo on April 28th, 2001 09:45 AM:

hey shin kyo! how do you play over the internet? I'd really like to try that since there is no competition whatsoever in my area...

also, I never knew you could shorten the TOP bar! how do you do that?

Posted by BoBO tHE sTrANgE on April 28th, 2001 10:07 AM:

ARGH CANT TYPE
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Posted by Drahktar on April 28th, 2001 07:42 PM:

I'm positive Hokutomaru's stars aren't alll just defended, just the first. I think the life gain and block damage about cancel out. It certainly isn't noticable. But you do not gain life out of the deal.

I think Terr'y Power Dunk brake is terrible. The only use for it is to Buster Wolf after it, which can be done from a standing hard kick/punch as well. If you don't follow it up with a Buster Wolf, then there is no point (and it's easier to hit with all of the Buster Wolf after the standing hard attacks than the PD brake, so this has little point anyway) since any other attack you can tack on will do less damage than letting the Power Dunk finish in the first place, and yes, following it up with another Power Dunk will do less damage than it by itself.

As for TOP bar shrinking, just press up or down. It'll shrink by about half each time and add 25% more damage while in that mode each time. So 1/4 size equals 75% damage. It's insane. If you do shrink it smaller, I'd recommend putting the bar at the top of your health bar (so you start in TOP mode) otherwise you run the very likely chance of being hit and losing your whole TOP bar at once, never even entering it, and that's no good.
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Posted by Drahktar on April 28th, 2001 07:45 PM:

Oh yeah, and choo, You play Garou using the MAME/Kailerra thing? I've only tried KOF'98 and me and a friend kept desyncing (I thought I won and so did he). Does Garou run well on that? I found KOF'98 unplayable over the net.
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Posted by Drahktar on April 28th, 2001 07:51 PM:

Aaargh, yet another thing I forgot. About Butt's Super Fireball you blocked. I think it worked the way you described it is because a vast majority of the damage is done from the first hit. Not sure, I'll have to check on that.
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Posted by Drahktar on April 28th, 2001 08:33 PM:

Ok, couple things.

How much life you gain from Just Defending is based on how much damage the move you just defended does, not on it's block damage (sorry, was wrong in my previous post). So, about just defending Butt's super fireball, I noticed it hits 4 times, each doing about the same amount of damage (a little greater than a strong punch for each hit it looks like). So I don't think you'd really get that much from just defending the first hit and not the rest, although I'm pretty sure you'll and up ahead.

BoBo: People are actually cool with you playing Grant? I would think you'd get a lot of complaints from using a boss character. True that they're not over-powering in Garou, but they are better. That and Grant has an infinite, and that's just not cool. I do like Grant otherwise though, I just hate his break out of a rock opening. I like his dark wave opening so much better. Oh well.
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Posted by BoBO tHE sTrANgE on April 28th, 2001 09:12 PM:

The people I play with dont really mind using grant. We do mind Kain though.he does way to much damage and has way to much pritioriy plus his supers are prolly the only in the gaming with what passes for invicibility frame. When you hit when he flashes for them he stops going in to the super but the super keeps going.Grant on the other hand isnt a overpowering character and there other chars with easier infinites. When i Use hotokumaru in his projectiles over n over you dony really take much damage from the 3 stars projectileunless you dont just defend the first one.what it realy does is break your enemys gaurd the damage from the stars and powers your special metet quickly.
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Posted by Drahktar on April 28th, 2001 09:19 PM:

Name one infinite that is easier than Grant's.
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Posted by BoBO tHE sTrANgE on April 28th, 2001 10:38 PM:

Gatos sister,hotaku
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I aM tHe LiZaRD KiNg I cAN dO ANyThiNg!

Posted by Double A on April 28th, 2001 11:00 PM:

this game is amzing, with balanced characters (yes even the girls, hotuka is great) and unbelivable looking specials this game deserves to go down in history as one of the best (they should at least have a tourney)..... and, as you can tell, i love it.....esepcially rock (not to forget dong) but one thing.....infintes, this game has infinites?!?

who....and is it possible without having to do it in training (where the power bar is constatly at max)?

stay alive snk, please, at least until die....
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Posted by Double A on April 28th, 2001 11:03 PM:

oh and that 'over the net thing' how do you do that? I have an emulation of the game for the pc (on neoragex) and on the neo geo...... what software do u use?

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big up to HVS and Extraguy for making me tags....thanks!
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Posted by Strider_ShiedoShaw on April 29th, 2001 05:02 AM:

best fucking 2d fighter i've ever played. This game completely nukes SF3 series. Sadly, I no longer have the computer that I used to have, so emulating would be out of the question, but if this gem hits dreamcast, I'm importing with the quickness!

Posted by Drahktar on April 29th, 2001 05:04 AM:

I was only aware of Grant's infinite. Didn't know Hotaru had one, care to enlighten us? I find it hard to believe that she has one that's easier. I imagine I would've found it by now.

As for the net play, you have to use MAME and Kailerra(spelling?). MAME has been annoying me recently though. It's not nearly as nice as NeorageX.
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Posted by Devil Lee on April 29th, 2001 06:50 AM:

Hey Arma, where did you get your PSX controller to Parallel Port converter? I'm interested..thanks.
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Posted by Strider_ShiedoShaw on April 29th, 2001 08:22 AM:

check out my down and dirty garou terry avatar....

Posted by Strider_ShiedoShaw on April 29th, 2001 08:26 AM:

more terry action!!!!!!

Posted by Arma^ on April 29th, 2001 09:54 AM:

I got mine from a local importer in the UK...

However, I think you can get them from here: http://www.lik-sang.com/ - have a look through their PSX section - I don't think they do the one I've got which supports 2 pads/sticks unfortunately..

I had a look on the box for mine which is all in Chinese - there's no website either, just the letters ES. I think you can get USB versions also.

Hope this helps!

Arma
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Posted by Arma^ on April 29th, 2001 09:58 AM:

http://www.kaillera.com/ is the online mame thing
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Posted by Drahktar on April 29th, 2001 06:56 PM:

Has anyone here gotten Garou running well online? MAME doesn't seem to like my rom set, so I haven't been able to try it. If it's at all like KOF'98, then it's not really playable online. Slow, stuttery and constant desyncs.
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Posted by Arma^ on April 29th, 2001 08:31 PM:

Yeah mine works ok but yet again it desyncs

Have you added the neo geo bios files to the zip? I also remember there being a p1 rom fix somewhere down the line.

Cheers.

Arma
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Ikuze!

Posted by Devil Lee on April 30th, 2001 02:11 AM:

Thanks Arma, very much appreciated, exactly what I've been looking for.
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Posted by Drahktar on April 30th, 2001 05:46 AM:

Hey Strider-Shaw, did you design your avatar to enduce seizures? I'm not prone to seizures, but if I were I imagine that would set me off.
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Posted by choo on April 30th, 2001 06:24 AM:

oh, I never really got into emulators.. I only downloaded neorage x for garou (don't worry, I'm getting it on dreamcast) because I heard a lot of good things about it. I don't know much about MAME and kailerra, so I guess there's no online play for me.

One question though, how do you put in more credits in console mode? I'm always stuck with just four. Also, does anyone know if you can plug in a gamepad/joystick for neorage? and if you can, what port should it be in? USB? Thanks for the help.

Posted by Arma^ on April 30th, 2001 11:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Devil Lee
Thanks Arma, very much appreciated, exactly what I've been looking for.

No Probs ^_^;
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Ikuze!

Posted by Arma^ on April 30th, 2001 11:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by choo
Also, does anyone know if you can plug in a gamepad/joystick for neorage? and if you can, what port should it be in? USB? Thanks for the help.

Read up a few posts about the PC -> PSX Converter...

There are however some arcade sticks made for PC - the URL escapes me atm - but I'll have a look round and try to find it.

Arma
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Posted by choo on April 30th, 2001 01:21 PM:

yup, I've read about that but sadly, I don't have a way to buy stuff over the internet. I've found a gamepad with a USB port in one of the computer stores near here but I'm just not sure if it'd work with neorage. Any advice?

Posted by Drahktar on April 30th, 2001 01:31 PM:

I'd recommend a sidewinder for NeorageX, that is, if they were still sold. For some reason Microsoft as stopped producing them. My only beef with them is that they seem to go bad pretty quick. They also have the nice feature that you can daisy chain them together. I think NeorageX specifically supports the sidewinder. Of course none of this matters since you can't get them anymore.
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Posted by choo on April 30th, 2001 02:25 PM:

nope, that helped a lot, thanks! 'Cause here in the philippines, sidewinders are still being sold at almost evey other store. Also, I saw this generic brand which had the same specifications the sidewinder did and only cost P350 (US $7)!

Posted by choo on April 30th, 2001 05:00 PM:

hey, I'm having trouble with the console mode of garou, I can't seem to find out how to put in extra credits, it's always stuck at 4. Also, how do you press SELECT? It's not on the keyboard configuration! Thanks in advance

Posted by Drahktar on April 30th, 2001 07:30 PM:

You can't get more than 4 credits in console mode. If you want more, switch to arcade mode.
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Posted by Drahktar on May 2nd, 2001 01:42 PM:

Can anyone confirm Kevin's 100% or Hotaru's infinite (both mentioned earlier)? I haven't seen either of these and I'm not sure if I believe they exist.

The only infinite I know of is Grant's qcf+D, forward+C(repeat). Yes it's just those two moves repeated. You need a corner though. Someone said that Hotaru had an easier infinite...
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Posted by Nate X Grey on May 2nd, 2001 02:45 PM:

I haven't seen any infinites in the game. Anyway, one of the earlier threads mentioned Dong Hwan being by far the best character in Taiwan. Why is this? What about other countries? I Dong Hwan like the universal best or something? I haven't seen too many good Dong Hwans around here.
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Posted by Drahktar on May 2nd, 2001 03:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Nate X Grey
I haven't seen any infinites in the game.

What do you mean? That's good! I hate infinites. I can forgive the game for Grant's, since he's a boss, but I really hope BoBo is wrong about Hotaru.

As for Dong Hwan, I have no idea. I think he's definitly good, I play him a lot, but he isn't overpowering or anything. He basically combo-less. He does good damage, but I think that's just to make up for his lack of combo's (he does have a few combo's using specials). Actually, and part of the reason I love this game, I can't think of a single unbalanced match-up. I'm the only good Hwan player I know, and I kick a lot more ass with Gato.
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Posted by Drahktar on May 2nd, 2001 03:18 PM:

Does anyone else call the Kim kids "Hwan" and "Hoon", or is it just me?
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Posted by Double A on May 2nd, 2001 07:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Drahktar

I'm the only good Hwan player I know, and I kick a lot more ass with Gato.

How and where do you play?
Kaillera? neorage or arcades?
When they bring Garou Mow on the DC, people are finally going to recognise the goodness within the game BUT with all the cancellations happening lately i hope garou mow doesnt get affected. In UK noone, i mean noone nows about garou, and i mean that! (besides me and a couple of peeps) I wonder what it is like in other countries (esepcially jap!) anyone?

Inifinites - hsa hotoru got one? the only one i know is grants......what about freeman?
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big up to HVS and Extraguy for making me tags....thanks!
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Posted by Drahktar on May 2nd, 2001 07:15 PM:

Finding someone who knows of Garou's existance is rare around here as well. I never meet strangers who are into it. My friends know of it because I show them. So I have one possibly two (he's learning) people who I find challenging to play with. It annoys me that such a great game goes unnoticed by so many.
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Posted by Arma^ on May 2nd, 2001 07:15 PM:

I do know of the Kevin one - I've got a combo movie somewhere on a CD..

I'll dig it out and post the combo

Cheers
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Ikuze!

Posted by Arma^ on May 2nd, 2001 07:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Drahktar
It annoys me that such a great game goes unnoticed by so many.

It has been announced for DC - hopefully they will continue making it considering the DC hasn't got much left in terms of time. Even though Sega are still gonna bring some more amasing games for the good ole DC

Cheers
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Posted by Double A on May 2nd, 2001 11:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Arma^
I do know of the Kevin one - I've got a combo movie somewhere on a CD..

I'll dig it out and post the combo

Cheers

safe blooodddddd, i have been looking for a garou mow combo vid of some sort for ages now.....anyone know any good garou mow websites?

anyway, thanks arma
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big up to HVS and Extraguy for making me tags....thanks!
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Posted by Arma^ on May 3rd, 2001 12:23 AM:

Right ok - I'm super busy atm with uni work - but once thats finished I'll find somewhere to host these combo movies I've got.

Sound good?

Arma
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Posted by Double A on May 3rd, 2001 12:31 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Arma^
Right ok - I'm super busy atm with uni work - but once thats finished I'll find somewhere to host these combo movies I've got.

Sound good?

Arma

fair enough.......no rush man, this game is good enough even without the combos!

take ur time and thanks man!
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big up to HVS and Extraguy for making me tags....thanks!
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Posted by Buktooth88 on May 3rd, 2001 07:05 AM:

I haven't played this game in such a long time, I made a mistake posting my intial Dong Hwan tactic, causing it to be rebutted by many.

Instead of doing repeated low jumps with immediate 'B', it's low jump 'A's instead. This is much better than qcb+k mix ups for many reasons:

1)The low jumping 'A' is an untelegraphed, INSTANT overhead. You cannot block it on reaction. Instead, the defender has to resort to guessing which way to block.

2)Since it's so easy to land a jumping 'A', the fact you can combo a super off of it makes it SO much more effective. You can also juggle after the super, making one wrong guess lead to HUGE damage. This is Dong Hwan's main threat.

3)qcb+k is really easy to Just Defend. You can also interrupt it before it hits. Not so with the jumping 'A'. The fact that it's untelegraphed makes it that much harder to Just Defend. Not only that, you can vary the timing in which the kick comes out.

4)The ability to do the kick at different times gives you much more flexibility and unpredictability. Once you start delaying your kick, you can do stuff like land without kicking, then crouching 'B' into a dp+k. You can also land without kicking then throw.

5)The only real effective way to escape this tactic once you get rolling is a perfectly timed psychic dp. If you're doing it right, your opponent won't even be able to jump away since you'll always have a foot over their head. The jumping 'A' also outprioritizes just about every normal move I can think of. What makes it even more powerful is many chars don't have a good enough dp to stop Dong Hwan's assault. Even if they do, you can then start baiting them into a dp, than punishing them afterwards when they miss.

There's much more to it, but I think you guys get the point. Most Garou tournies in Taiwan are won by the Dong Hwan who can lock down the most effectively. Watching a Dong Hwan go to work is quite similar to watching a lockdown Millia in GGX (probably a bad example, since most people haven't even seen the game before), once he's in, good luck getting him out.

Posted by sLeEpeDuSt on May 3rd, 2001 05:59 PM:

Hmmz. izzit just me.. or no 1 here has noticed krushwood butt aka marco roderiguez.

great projectile... fast.. nice mid-screen height, very ideal for poking in mid screen range.

great brake move, his dp move. u hit, brake, super fireball. great 1/2 life or so damage? u miss, brake and u're safe.

high priority in air - his j.hk is probably the most over prioritised shit in the game.

overhead XX into a mad rush.. his qcf X 3 + c ( p power only) move.. crazy damage.... if u block it frm full guard bar u get brought down to near 0 guard.

nice speed.. not reallie that slow. nice overall damage too.

any1 wanna gimme tips on him?

Posted by Yojimbo on May 4th, 2001 12:23 AM:

Kevin Rian -(opponent in corner)j+C, C, QCF x2+B, j+C,C,QCF x2+B, j+C, C, f+AC, d+C, HCF+D(breaked), QCB+A

.... in TOP it's a 100% combo.

Posted by Drahktar on May 4th, 2001 03:06 AM:

QUOTE:Originally posted by Buktooth88
Instead of doing repeated low jumps with immediate 'B', it's low jump 'A's instead. This is much better than qcb+k mix ups for many reasons:

1)The low jumping 'A' is an untelegraphed, INSTANT overhead. You cannot block it on reaction. Instead, the defender has to resort to guessing which way to block.

----The only time I can see this is a problem is if your trying to just defend his kicks. When he gets near you in the air, just hold back. Easy enough. You also talked about a guessing game, I'm assuming you mean that in close on the ground he can do a low jumping 'A' that's untelegraphed. Well that is pretty close range and if I'm close I'm either attacking or blocking. I save my just defends for more predictible times. And if he has a good low combo I should be worried about, I sure haven't seen it.

2)Since it's so easy to land a jumping 'A', the fact you can combo a super off of it makes it SO much more effective. You can also juggle after the super, making one wrong guess lead to HUGE damage. This is Dong Hwan's main threat.

----You basically have to know you'll hit with that jumping 'A' if you're going to follow it up with a super, so the jumping 'A', in essence makes the super slightly faster.

3)qcb+k is really easy to Just Defend. You can also interrupt it before it hits. Not so with the jumping 'A'. The fact that it's untelegraphed makes it that much harder to Just Defend. Not only that, you can vary the timing in which the kick comes out.

----You can vary the timing for the qcb+k as well by pressing 'B' or 'D', I've found alternating rendomly between these makes them MUCH harder to just defend, and they do insane block damage. I don't make these the bulk of my offense either, just so you know.

4)The ability to do the kick at different times gives you much more flexibility and unpredictability. Once you start delaying your kick, you can do stuff like land without kicking, then crouching 'B' into a dp+k. You can also land without kicking then throw.

----You can do that with anything.

5)The only real effective way to escape this tactic once you get rolling is a perfectly timed psychic dp. If you're doing it right, your opponent won't even be able to jump away since you'll always have a foot over their head. The jumping 'A' also outprioritizes just about every normal move I can think of. What makes it even more powerful is many chars don't have a good enough dp to stop Dong Hwan's assault. Even if they do, you can then start baiting them into a dp, than punishing them afterwards when they miss.

----A number of characters have some descent anti-air supers that can easily punish a constantly jumping Hwan.

There's much more to it, but I think you guys get the point. Most Garou tournies in Taiwan are won by the Dong Hwan who can lock down the most effectively. Watching a Dong Hwan go to work is quite similar to watching a lockdown Millia in GGX (probably a bad example, since most people haven't even seen the game before), once he's in, good luck getting him out.

----Well, I certainly haven't had much experience playing Garou with people (I basically play with one friend), so I can't be certain how good that tactic is. It doesn't SOUND too terribly overpowering, but I'd guess I'd have to play against it. So most the above is speculation.

----Was sorta curious exactly how dominating Hwan is in Taiwan. You said most tournies are won by him, but are those tournies at least close, or is it more, be Hwan or be gone?
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Posted by Buktooth88 on May 4th, 2001 11:29 PM:

Maybe I have to change my wording a bit. If the opponent is crouching, Dong Hwan can low jump and IMMEDIATELY do an 'A' right off the ground, which will hit the crouching opponent. INSTANT overhead. Hmmm... examples...:

tigerknee motion +slash with Ukyo in SS2.

tigerknee +p with Millia in GGX (and a BUNCH of others chars in that game as well).

uhh, that's all I can think of. Maybe not too useful of examples since those games are pretty obscure, anyways... Well, basically, the opponent is reduced to 50/50 guessing on which way to block. If they block low, they can eat a jumping 'A' into super, then juggle. If they block high, they receive a low combo. (again, haven't played this game in quite some time, but IIRC, it goes: crouching b, dp+k, break, juggle)

Since the low jumping 'A' is again, instant, the opponent has to do a PERFECTLY timed anti-air reversal to knock Hwan out of the air in the initial frames of his jump. Supers take a bit longer to input the code than normal anti-airs, so it's even harder to pull one of those off with perfect timing if Hwan is doing his high/low game well.

Again, due to the nature of the timing needed to knock Hwan out of his attack, you have to guess if Hwan is even going to DO a low jumping 'A'. Guess wrong and you get punished.

As for Taiwan, Garou tournies are kinda like Nakoruru in CvS tournies. There's usually good variety in the chosen chars, but the winner is usually Dong Hwan. Occasionally you'll see a Kevin or Tizok come out on top, but it's usually Hwan.

Posted by Drahktar on May 5th, 2001 06:51 PM:

Garou tournies. That's something that won't show up in the states. Certainly not in the mid-west. Bah.
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Posted by Infiniti on May 5th, 2001 06:58 PM:

can any of you guys tell me where I can find the garou rom? I am totally planing to buy the game, but no arcade around WA state has the game, the only game they have is KoF 99.
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-Infiniti 15:38

Posted by Drahktar on May 5th, 2001 08:11 PM:

Bug me on ICQ, I'll try and find a way to get it to you...
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Posted by Infiniti on May 5th, 2001 08:48 PM:

whats icq?
__________________
-Infiniti 15:38

Posted by Drahktar on May 5th, 2001 09:02 PM:

Instant messaging software. Most peeps use it, gets more ad ridden by the day though (icq.com should you want it)
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Posted by el_diablo on May 7th, 2001 01:06 AM:

is that me or no one has noticed that kevin rian is overpowered???????
well in france, the 3 betters are:
-Kim Dong Hwan
-Kevin Rian
-Hokutomaru
the other ones are great but too predictables.
and Kevin rian is really phat:
got one 100%
got some huge priorities
got 2 of the best supers in the whole game!!!

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Posted by Double A on May 9th, 2001 08:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by el_diablo
is that me or no one has noticed that kevin rian is overpowered???????
well in france, the 3 betters are:
-Kim Dong Hwan
-Kevin Rian
-Hokutomaru
the other ones are great but too predictables.
and Kevin rian is really phat:
got one 100%
got some huge priorities
got 2 of the best supers in the whole game!!!

and he is cool, lol
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double da name double da fun.............

big up to HVS and Extraguy for making me tags....thanks!
(This tag by HVS)

Posted by Grimloc on May 9th, 2001 11:10 PM:

Yes. A Garou thread. Me likes.

I mainly use Terry or Rock. Terry's foreward + FP attack(the two hitter auto) is excellent when comboing into a buster wolf or power geyser. His T.O.P. is rather slow though, nearly impossible to combo into it.

Now Rock just plain.....well..........rocks . He's got Terry's Rising Tackle, Geese's Reppukens, and a nice teleport move. An excellent player, yet hard to master.

My arcade actually has Garou. I would play it all the time, until I found out about NeoRageX. Now, I never leave home, playing Garou, KOF 94-99(and soon to be 2000!), and all the Samurai Shodown. God I love SNK.

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Posted by Buktooth88 on May 10th, 2001 06:00 AM:

Everybody, go to http://www.gamecombos.com/! There's a new combo movie on MOTW from Castel! (the Tekken master) Pretty amazing stuff. Only combos in there I was aware of were the Rock and Dong Hwan combos. Check it out!

Posted by AZER on May 10th, 2001 06:51 AM:

Cool combos.

Actually that was my first time watching some Garou action. I am very interested in the game and can't wait for the DC version.

I'll check up on this topic to learn more about Garou.

BTW good job Castel.
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Posted by Akuma2002 on May 10th, 2001 07:16 AM:

this game is pretty great

Posted by Double A on May 10th, 2001 07:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buktooth88
Everybody, go to http://www.gamecombos.com/! There's a new combo movie on MOTW from Castel! (the Tekken master) Pretty amazing stuff. Only combos in there I was aware of were the Rock and Dong Hwan combos. Check it out!

heavy!!!!!! finally somone posts a motw clip, not that i dont know any of the combos anyway, lol.......anyway you smashed it buktooth for telling us about it.....safe!
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Posted by el_diablo on May 11th, 2001 12:10 PM:

well, i'd like some new ones.... since everybody in my arcades does those one thousand times a day.....
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Posted by frenchteam on May 11th, 2001 01:00 PM:

it's unbelievable to see that Capcom has strenghened Terry so much in CvS .he is the perfect offensive Terry.(Ryu is not bad either)

Posted by RealBout c.f. on May 11th, 2001 02:34 PM:

Hi Guys,

Garou is by far my favorite game, and I plan on releasing my very first combo movie as soon as I get the right cable for my Neo, goddammit.

Castel´s movie is very good, but I still have some combos that I´ve never seen before, not in videos nor in faqs. Maybe some of you know them already, but I think for the most of the Garou-fans out there, they are new.

As soon as it is online, I´ll let you know. I think by the end of the next week I should have the movie ready.

Posted by Buktooth88 on May 11th, 2001 05:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by frenchteam
it's unbelievable to see that Capcom has strenghened Terry so much in CvS .he is the perfect offensive Terry.(Ryu is not bad either)

Although SNK players usually digress, Capcom actually strengthened quite a few SNK chars... I mean, Nakoruru goes without saying, but IMO Vice, Kim and Yuri have never been more effective, either. Vice's normal moves are like a million times better than in KOF98.... Actually, ALL of the SNK chars normal moves are faster.

I think the SNK players are sore because of what happened to Kyo and Ryo. If Kyo kept his autoguard during his rekka kens, and his rdp+k was the way it was in KOF, we'd have a REALLY overpowered character on our hands. Instead we have Nak.

Posted by Infiniti on May 11th, 2001 07:08 PM:

This game is sooooo fuggin fun! haven't had this much fun since, SF3 New Generation!!!
__________________
-Infiniti 15:38

Posted by el_diablo on May 12th, 2001 08:05 PM:

hey buktooth88, you think kim has never been like this??? do you play KOF or what???? since KOF 98, kim is fuckingly awesome.... and the CvS kim, normal or Ex, is nothing compares to KOF kim!!!
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Posted by Drahktar on May 14th, 2001 07:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buktooth88
Actually, ALL of the SNK chars normal moves are faster.

Not true. Overheads for starters are much slower.
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Posted by Chougousenki on May 14th, 2001 07:33 PM:
King

Helloooooo.

Anybody who says the SNK weren't weakened is a fool! King is way to dumbed down in CvS. She only has the weak version of her Funnel Kick. Terry's Buster Wolf is way too weak. They are limited to doing more Capcom-like combos because their moves flow a lot less effectively like in KOF. Why Raiden instead of Blue Mary?!?!!!
A lot of the vital combonations that are possible in KOF are impossible in this game because their moves are scattered between the normal and EX versions of each character.

Posted by Drahktar on May 14th, 2001 07:39 PM:

Capcom had to weaken the SNK characters. Simple balance issue. If you ask me, Terry is the best in the game.
__________________
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Posted by Chougousenki on May 14th, 2001 08:14 PM:
King

Yeah. I guess. But after this SNK scandal and then the fact that Capcom is slowing down their arcade game production. Capcom Needs To BURN!!!!!!

Posted by Buktooth88 on May 14th, 2001 10:23 PM:
Re: King

quote:
Originally posted by Chougousenki
Helloooooo.

Anybody who says the SNK weren't weakened is a fool! King is way to dumbed down in CvS.

As dumbed down as you think King may be, it's pretty well accepted that she is only behind EX Vice and Dhalsim (who are pretty much tied) as the top ratio 1 char. Again, King's normals are MUCH better in CvS than in KOF. (with the exception of her f+wk overhead, that was kinda nice) Her sweep is a MILLION times better in CvS in terms of range, speed and priority. Her slide goes under projectiles, her c.fierce is way better as anti-air, and her c.jab is faster and has more range.

Also, I never said Capcom didn't weaken SNK chars. I DID mention Kyo and Ryo. However, you seem to be implying that Capcom weakened SNK chars out of preference to their own characters. Did it ever occur to you that the most game-breaking character, far and away, is an SNK character? Did it ever occur to you that the two worst characters, by far, are Capcom characters? Probably not. You probably haven't even played the game enough to know which characters I'm talking about. You probably played the game hoping to play KOF 2001 and was horrified to find that the KOF chars have been changed, there aren't any low jumps, and you can't chain normals into command normals into specials. You should think before you start throwing around uninformed opinions and calling people fools.

It amazes me that people complain that EX Rugal is worse than Omega Rugal. OF COURSE he's worse than Omega Rugal! If they can't figure out why, then I probably wouldn't be able to explain it adequately to them.

Posted by Chougousenki on May 15th, 2001 12:48 PM:
King

Listen up! When I said fools I did mean people like you! I've had CvS since it first came out in Japan! I've been a King player all my life and if you read back over your last post you'll notice that the only "goof" moves you named were normals. Her specials were completely screwed up.

Posted by Buktooth88 on May 15th, 2001 04:30 PM:
Re: King

quote:
Originally posted by Chougousenki
Listen up! When I said fools I did mean people like you! I've had CvS since it first came out in Japan! I've been a King player all my life and if you read back over your last post you'll notice that the only "goof" moves you named were normals. Her specials were completely screwed up.

oh please. I'm tired of these SNK fanboys coming to this site just to diss Capcom players. What's a goof move? Goofed up? I said her normals are BETTER than in KOF. As anybody knows, normals are just as important, if not MORE important, than a character's specials. Fine, you want improvements over KOF?

Most importantly, her improved normals, which I've already gone over, but can't stress enough.

Her aforementioned vastly improved sweep can combo into certain moves, underscoring it's usefulness even more. Same with the slide.

You can juggle off of her throw.

Her projectile goes all the way across the screen.

EX King can combo combo the qcb+k off of a jab, which is really valuable in the CvS engine. If they kept this move the way it was in KOF it would be a pretty worthless move.

Normal King's qcb x2+k super is WAY improved over the KOF version.

Her trap shot, tornado kick, qcb x2+k super, double strike super, qcb+k (in EX), can all be juggled off of.

Her jumping short (which also has a LOT of priority) can cross up.

Surprise rose has much more priority on it's starting frames.

You're also entirely missing the point. IT'S A BALANCE ISSUE. As King is in CvS, she's still in contention for the best ratio 1 character. I suppose you want her to be head and shoulders above the rest? I suppose we should just port the SNK chars over to CvS without changing them at all. What reason would we have to use Ryu and Ken when you can use the old Ryo, Terry, Iori, Mai, Rugal and old Kyo? Due to differences in the fighting engines, KOF has moves that would just KILL the gameplay balance if they were included. i.e, all the chars with a command grab which can be juggled after, the aforementioned Kyo moves, Terry's power charge, etc.

I'm surprised they didn't change Iori's 8 Wine Cups super. Look how game breaking that move is. If you didn't know, (you probably didn't) in SNK groove, Iori can keep doing maximum 8 Wine Cups, over and over again, and certain chars have a really hard time doing anything about it. If Mai keeps doing her fan super, certain chars can't do ANYTHING. Do you understand now?

Or not. Capcom needs to burn in hell for balancing a game, right? Go back to ON.com, already.

Posted by Drahktar on May 15th, 2001 10:09 PM:

BTW, Kyo is very, VERY good.
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Posted by Buktooth88 on May 16th, 2001 05:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Drahktar
BTW, Kyo is very, VERY good.

Are you talking about CvS? He's got some damaging combos and a nice dp, but he's pretty cruddy compared to other ratio 2's (and compared to his KOF self). Oh, his d/f+roundhouse is nice, too.

Posted by Drahktar on May 16th, 2001 06:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buktooth88

Are you talking about CvS? He's got some damaging combos and a nice dp, but he's pretty cruddy compared to other ratio 2's (and compared to his KOF self). Oh, his d/f+roundhouse is nice, too.

Yeah, I'm talking CvS. He's got 1 of the best level 3 supers in the game (the Orochinagi) and his dp rocks. Do not compare CvS characters to their KOF counterparts, they'll always be worse. Just a balance issue. Kyo is still very playable in CvS.
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Posted by Ryu1999 on May 16th, 2001 07:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Drahktar

Yeah, I'm talking CvS. He's got 1 of the best level 3 supers in the game (the Orochinagi) and his dp rocks. Do not compare CvS characters to their KOF counterparts, they'll always be worse. Just a balance issue. Kyo is still very playable in CvS.

well i can't really think of any notable level 3 supers besides shin shoryukena and raging demon. and kyo being playable in CVS is a moot point since pracitcally everyone is playable, but he's not that good compared to the "better" r2s lilke nak, guile, ex terry, kim, ryu, ken, ex mai. isn't that like the whole r2 right there? ;-)
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Posted by Drahktar on May 16th, 2001 08:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ryu1999

well i can't really think of any notable level 3 supers besides shin shoryukena and raging demon. and kyo being playable in CVS is a moot point since pracitcally everyone is playable, but he's not that good compared to the "better" r2s lilke nak, guile, ex terry, kim, ryu, ken, ex mai. isn't that like the whole r2 right there? ;-)

I'd say Kyo is an equal to kim or ryu. His combo's do the most damage in the game (r2).
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Posted by Ryu1999 on May 16th, 2001 08:58 PM:

ummm, i think not. things ryu has over kyo:

1. hopkick->anti-footsies move, which is basically 90% of CVS's game

2. semi-decent projectile which actually knocks down (i know i know projectiles suck, but at least he's safe after connecting with it LOL)

3. shoryuken has way more invincibility than oni yaki in this game

4. ryu has THE most powerful combo in the game which brings me to

5. shin shoryuken. a 6-year old could combo this move and its hmmm 60-70% on a r2

kyo's not a horrible character, but ryu's a bit better overall. i don't know anything about kim besides the cr. hk is GOD.

what does kyo have?

1. enhanced strength (for a R2)

2. ummmm, EX kyo has a combo friendly hopkicks (qcf+k,k)

3. hammer punch to beat out anti airs

4. df+hk -> probably the most useful sweep-type move in the game. long range, quick, good recovery (i think. i abuse this move in kof)

kyo relies on his combos to win his match, but the ability to land combos (outside of nakorou) is not that useful considernig how you're going to land a starter (too bad hammer punch knocks down)...all ryu needs is a sweep, and basically the match is over. i don't see how kyo is equal to ryu in any way.
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Posted by Drahktar on May 16th, 2001 10:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ryu1999
ummm, i think not. things ryu has over kyo:

1. hopkick->anti-footsies move, which is basically 90% of CVS's game

----- Kyo's got the df - D, but yeah, Ryu has advantage here. I do a lot of rolling though. Try to keep away from too much footsie

2. semi-decent projectile which actually knocks down (i know i know projectiles suck, but at least he's safe after connecting with it LOL)

----- Advantage Ryu. He's got one of the few useful projectiles, although I still think throwing projectiles is a death wish

3. shoryuken has way more invincibility than oni yaki in this game

----- It's certainly not way more. Kyo's Oniyaki also does more damage and is easy to combo into. I'd take Oniyaki over Dragon Punch
anyday

4. ryu has THE most powerful combo in the game which brings me to

----- Not true, Geese holds that prestigious title.

5. shin shoryuken. a 6-year old could combo this move and its hmmm 60-70% on a r2

----- I can't deny that this super is insane. However, Kyo's Lev3 Orochinagi is almost as good (they roll or jump, you hit for free) and you can combo into his Mu Shiki off a l.punch. Kyo's Mu Shiki does about 55% damage by itself, so it certainly doesn't suck.

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Posted by Ryu1999 on May 17th, 2001 03:16 AM:

well i didn't say there was a huge advantage of ryu over kyo, but shin shoryuken is what puts him over the top. ryu can combo shin-sho off of regular shoryuken..geese's raging storm motion itself is already too much of a pain in the ass to to just perform and since the mess up factor is quite high...not as good..i don't know basically the way i see it nak, guile > everyone, with everyone else with minor advantages or disadvantages. well regardless i'd still pick ryu . kyo all the way in kof though!
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Posted by Drahktar on May 17th, 2001 06:53 AM:

Yeah, I think Ryu is better, but he's also one of the best in the game. So Kyo is definetly worthwhile.

Um, and Gato rules.
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Posted by Buktooth88 on May 17th, 2001 07:10 AM:

As far as ratio 2's go, the only one that downright sucks is Raiden. Of course Kyo is playable, but I doubt you'll ever see any tourney won with him (I guess that's a moot point since tourneys are rarely won by anybody except Nak and Guile). Yes, ratio 2's are mostly decent characters. However, as far as ratio 2 tier rankings are concerned, Kyo isn't very high on the list.

Posted by Drahktar on May 17th, 2001 06:30 PM:

Well, I'm thinking of running a CvS Pro tournament here in St.Cloud (just outside the twin cities) after it comes out. If so, and it's pretty likely, I'll be using Kyo for sure. So we'll see
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Posted by Buktooth88 on May 18th, 2001 08:20 AM:

ya know, I coulda swore this thread was supposed to be about Garou...

Posted by Ryu1999 on May 18th, 2001 01:36 PM:

back to garou....anyways, i've been playing online and i started biting (AKA stealing!) the taiwan dong hwan strategy. i don't constantly use it and i mix it up with old school footsies and his overhead. however, the low jump a pestering has a bit hard timing i suppose as i get thrown quite a few times and or i won't get a chance to start the pattern going as people start to run away once i've used a couple of iteratiosn of jump a->super
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Posted by Drahktar on May 18th, 2001 03:56 PM:

Yeah, that attack is more of an option you should keep in mind. Not something to base your whole strategy on.
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Posted by Buktooth88 on May 18th, 2001 05:33 PM:

I guess you guys just have to see it done by a guy who REALLY knows how to use it. Once he get's in, it's SO hard to get him out. Since Dong has a super jump AND a great cross up move (jump back+c) it's really easy to get in. (not to mention you can just jump in and Just Defend the anti-air attacks...bleh, I hate that. Anti-airs should be useful in a fighting game) One of the French guys on this site probably know what I'm talking about...I heard SNK games are huge over there, too.

Oh yeah, for those of you who can do the motion fast enough, his qcfx3 +c super is like an AHVB; Give him the TINIEST bit of lag, and lose half of your life.

This isn't really practical, but a fully charged qcfx2 +d super (which is surprisingly quick) will automatically guard break on the last hit. There isn't really much time to do anything except a standing c into a dp+kick, but it's a nice option to have. The other nice thing about this super is you can just watch for a reaction while you're holding the button down and punish ANYTHING they try (if you're close enough) by letting the button go if you've got quick enough reflexes.

P power moves are a more viable option for Dong since his constant attacking builds his meter at an insanely fast rate, so use em as soon as you can. Sometimes I'll get three P powers in two rounds!

Oh, and is it just me, or is Dong's qp+kick REALLY hard to Just Defend?

Posted by Ryu1999 on May 18th, 2001 05:45 PM:

yeah that qcx3 super is the shit. and you said the exact same words i used when i described it to someone i used it on! blocked ANYTHING equal qcfx3 super :-) lets see...rock's C version burn knuckle, terry's ANY burn knuckle, jae hoon's qcb+k...the list goes on and on. yeah the a annoynace works quite well actually, but it has high risk factor. but throws aren't that big of a factor considering the high reward for landing j. a->A super. does anyone use his hcb+K off of his just defend? just wondering....
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Posted by Drahktar on May 18th, 2001 07:13 PM:

You mean his hcb+punch? The multi-kick thing right? If I'm close I do that (hcb+C), if I'm far I do hcb+kick (lightning kick). Hcb+C does insane damage.
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Posted by el_diablo on May 18th, 2001 08:08 PM:

yeah, in france, in garou...... anti-airs are a deathwish.
dong is quite good, but i prefer kevin cuz his QCFx2+D(p power)have 1 frame start AND you can juggle or follow it!!!
Dong Hwan is phat but kevin IS the man....!!!!!!
and yeah, SNK games are really appreciated over here.
that's why we, arcade gamers, don't really like CvS.
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Posted by Buktooth88 on May 18th, 2001 08:12 PM:

I usually use dp+k after a Just Defend if I'm close since the startup is faster.

Drahktar, is your sig from Zork? I hated that game!

Posted by el_diablo on May 18th, 2001 08:19 PM:

who's dp+k?
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Posted by Drahktar on May 18th, 2001 08:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buktooth88
Drahktar, is your sig from Zork? I hated that game!

Yeah, me too.
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Posted by Drahktar on May 18th, 2001 08:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by el_diablo
who's dp+k?

Hwan's I'm guessing
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Posted by el_diablo on May 18th, 2001 08:36 PM:

dong hwan is dp+p
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Posted by Buktooth88 on May 19th, 2001 04:48 AM:

oops. well, you know what I meant.

Posted by el_diablo on May 19th, 2001 12:26 PM:

i still thinks dong is good but not enough.... i think kevin is better..... and hokutomaru too......
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Posted by Drahktar on May 21st, 2001 04:53 AM:

I love Gato. He's easily my favorite fighting game character to date. Terry is also cool in Garou. I'm so happy he pawned his Rising Tackle off on Rock.

EDIT: Forgot about Saisyu. Saisyu is as cool as Gato. Can't forget Saisyu.
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Posted by el_diablo on May 21st, 2001 05:26 AM:

gato is good.... but not enough.....
but i gotta admit that saisyu is phat
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Posted by Buktooth88 on May 21st, 2001 08:00 PM:

why Saisyu? He's basically a '95 Kyo with a disco lookin move. Now if you want to talk KOF, then DAIMON was the man. What happened to him, anyways?

Posted by Drahktar on May 21st, 2001 08:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buktooth88
why Saisyu? He's basically a '95 Kyo with a disco lookin move. Now if you want to talk KOF, then DAIMON was the man. What happened to him, anyways?

It's all about style. As for Daimon, don't ask me. Guess he just rocks too much for current fighters.
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Posted by el_diablo on May 23rd, 2001 06:03 AM:

he had founded a judo dojo.... and daimon was the man only in 98
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Posted by Sie Kensou on May 25th, 2001 05:23 AM:
..

Anyone familiar with FREEMAN from Garou??? IF so, please help me out, i'm trying to learn him, but for me he's kinda slow, I'm a Butt user and Hotaru, i like Freeman cuz he looks kewl and i wanna learn him. Anyways, please help me out Thanks all

Kensou

Posted by Sie Kensou on May 25th, 2001 05:26 AM:
...

yeah Daimon is a good Character in KOF 98, his infinite in 97 was just to much...Also, for in side of CvS that game needs more SNK Characters, like BLUE MARY!!! But what can we do, well at least CvS2, Rock Howard is in that one. Well that's all for now, later

Kensou

Posted by Buktooth88 on May 25th, 2001 06:09 AM:
Re: ..

quote:
Originally posted by Sie Kensou
I'm a Butt user

Kensou

whoa there. I don't recall anybody asking about your personal life.

Seriously, though, Freeman isn't that good of a character, IMO. A good place to start is to learn where his qcfx2+p super will juggle, like after an anti-air dp+p or a TOP attack.

His d+AB is a good poke, since it has a pretty good range and can be buffered into specials.

Posted by Drahktar on May 25th, 2001 08:31 PM:

I think Freeman is actually pretty good. His quarter circle back punch slashes are simply AWESOME. I'd try and get those down. The second weak slash hits low, which is very nice. Also, you can put close to a second delay before throwing the next slash out, making it almost impossible for someone to effectively retaliate.
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Posted by UnCauzi on May 25th, 2001 11:59 PM:

This game sucks, and Dong whatever his name is, the best,followed by Kevin. The only choices on Kaillera that's for sure.

Posted by Sie Kensou on May 26th, 2001 04:30 AM:

Bout Garou, who do u think is better, Jae Hoon or Dong Hwan???
IMO i think it's Jae Hoon, cuz he is like his DAD Kim. While Dong Hwan, well he's different. So what do u think guys???

Kensou

Posted by Chougousenki on May 27th, 2001 02:35 AM:
Jae Hoon

Yeah I think Jae Hoon is a lot better than Don Hwan. He is a lot more similar to Kim and his supers are sweeter. His TOP attack is descent. And his combos coupled with his lightning kick, are effective.
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Posted by Sie Kensou on May 27th, 2001 05:48 AM:

Another thing i like bout Jae Hoon is his super where he pops u up and then u can do he's other super. It's also cool when he ends the rush super, unlike Kim in KOF, CVS, Jae Hoon ends it with a fire Phoenix. Anyways, that's all i have to say for Jae Hoon. ok later

Kensou

Posted by Drahktar on May 28th, 2001 02:51 AM:

I have infinitly more respect for Kim's kids then for Kim himself. Kim is so lame in comparison.

Also, where can I get a Garou rom that works with Kailerra? I can get it to run on NeorageX, but not on MAME. I have the correct file sizes for everything too. Can I get a patch for it somewhere?
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Posted by ImMature on May 28th, 2001 08:55 AM:

Yo Drahktar, about Kaillera watch this:

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=19728

And BTW of 'em Kim bros I like Jae Hoon the best too. He's the easiest 1 to learn if you're already a Kim player in KOF/FF
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Posted by Drahktar on May 28th, 2001 10:03 AM:

Cool, thanks. I'll check that tomarrow.
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Posted by el_diablo on May 29th, 2001 10:37 AM:

ok, jae hoon is easier to learn (really??), but he's not as strong as dong hwan....
he got a lame anti-air, and all his moves are sooooooooooo predictable....
dong hwan is a thousand times better..... and he got more style, too...
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Posted by Buktooth88 on May 29th, 2001 09:20 PM:

yeah. Jae Hoon can't really mount a good offense, either. He has no good high/low game to speak of (mixing up the endings after his (air)qcf+k NEVER works), can't chip well (too much lag after a qcb+k or qcf+k to keep attacking) nor has a good guard crush ability. His TOP attack does good guard crushing, but it's WAY too slow and telegraphed to be of any use except as a meaty attack.

Since his offense isn't too great, he has to rely on defense, right? Well, anybody who doesn't have crap for an anti-air cannot be defensive. Trying to use the hcf+p to autoguard moves will get you killed, too.

Dong Hwan owns his bro for free. He IS the older brother, anyway.

Posted by Drahktar on May 30th, 2001 02:11 AM:

Bah, Garou and MAME just don't want to cooperate. I've downloaded the P1,P2 roms from orochi, renamed all the files to what MAME asks for, and even double checked the file sizes, which are all correct. So it can't just be the P1,P2 roms. Any other roms that had any trouble?
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Posted by ImMature on May 30th, 2001 03:18 AM:

To el_diablo & Buktooth88: Hello? Did you guys ever read my last post? I'm not saying that Jae Hoon is better than Dong Hwan (which he isn't), all I'm saying is that from someone who's been playing as Kim since the early ages of Fatal Fury plus at KOF's POV Jae Hoon is waaaay easier to learn/get used to than Dong Hwan is. Yep even if he's not a charge char like his dad used to be (his lame anti-air being his only charge move at all) Kim players would surely feel much more comfortable playing as Jae Hoon indeed

Let's take a look to Jae Hoon's specials and supers to find some evidence of this:

*HienZan anti-air: same as Kim's (even though if Kim's is waaay better when it comes to both range and priority)

*Jae's d+K in-air attack: same as Kim's

*HanGetsuZan: ditto

*Jae's qcf+K: Similar to Kim's b,f+K (only that Kim's special is more useful)

*Jae's qcf*2+K super: Similar to Kim's Rush super/DM

...

So you see, someone who's already a Kim player would learn how to become relatively good with Jae Hoon in no time. The same cannot be applied to Dong Hwan. That was my point

To Drahktar: Uh so the Garou rom doesn't work after all, hey? That's odd, man Are you sure you've renamed the rompack to "garoup.zip"?

EDIT: This is the list of compressed roms for Garou (prototipe) that MAME will ask you for:

garoup: motwp_p1.rom 1048576 bytes
garoup: motwp_p2.rom 4194304 bytes
garoup: motwp_s1.rom 131072 bytes
garoup: ng-sfix.rom 131072 bytes
garoup: neo-geo.rom 131072 bytes
garoup: ng-sm1.rom 131072 bytes
garoup: motw_m1.rom 262144 bytes
garoup: motw_v1.rom 4194304 bytes
garoup: motw_v2.rom 4194304 bytes
garoup: motw_v3.rom 4194304 bytes
garoup: motw_v4.rom 4194304 bytes
garoup: motwp_c1.rom 8388608 bytes
garoup: motwp_c2.rom 8388608 bytes
garoup: motwp_c3.rom 8388608 bytes
garoup: motwp_c4.rom 8388608 bytes
garoup: motwp_c5.rom 8388608 bytes
garoup: motwp_c6.rom 8388608 bytes
garoup: motwp_c7.rom 8388608 bytes
garoup: motwp_c8.rom 8388608 bytes

...

You'll probably will have to rename a lotsa "motw*.rom"'s to "motwp*.rom"'s, not only P1 & P2. I remember I had to as well...
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Posted by Buktooth88 on May 30th, 2001 06:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ImMature
To el_diablo & Buktooth88: Hello? Did you guys ever read my last post? I'm not saying that Jae Hoon is better than Dong Hwan (which he isn't), all I'm saying is that from someone who's been playing as Kim since the early ages of Fatal Fury plus at KOF's POV Jae Hoon is waaaay easier to learn/get used to than Dong Hwan is. Yep even if he's not a charge char like his dad used to be (his lame anti-air being his only charge move at all) Kim players would surely feel much more comfortable playing as Jae Hoon indeed

sorry for the misunderstanding, but when you say you like a certain character better, it's usually because you think that they ARE better. No need to get so defensive. You're starting to sound like that Chougousenki guy.

Posted by Buktooth88 on May 30th, 2001 06:46 AM:

oh, big news: http://www.gamecombos.com/ is having an online Garou tourney! The tourney will be organized once 16 or more people sign up. I believe Kalleira is the required emulator for Garou. This is probably the closest thing we'll get to a Garou tourney in the U.S, so go on and sign up!

Oh yeah, they're also having a Hyper Fighting tourney on the Callus emulator for anybody on this thread who isn't a diehard SNK fan. (which is probably everybody on this thread except for me)

Posted by ImMature on May 30th, 2001 10:46 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buktooth88

sorry for the misunderstanding, but when you say you like a certain character better, it's usually because you think that they ARE better. No need to get so defensive. You're starting to sound like that Chougousenki guy.

Ok man, sorry 'bout that The reason why I like Jae Hoon better is simply put cause I learned him 1st when MOTW came to my area

quote:
Originally posted by Buktooth88
oh, big news: http://www.gamecombos.com/ is having an online Garou tourney! The tourney will be organized once 16 or more people sign up. I believe Kalleira is the required emulator for Garou. This is probably the closest thing we'll get to a Garou tourney in the U.S, so go on and sign up!

That sounds cool, I'll go check now. Let's hope they'll let the Europeans participate on it as well...even though if it isn't being hold on a EC server my chances will be minus than zero

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Posted by Drahktar on June 5th, 2001 06:10 AM:

I would LOVE to participate, but it looks like I'll have to get a different garou romset. I've done everything you've suggested Immature. Still no go Thanks for your help though.
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